Improving catch rates?

[cfc]

First i'll say hi, i'm new to the site and look forward to reading and posting a bit in the future.

Ive been getting more into beach fishing over the last couple of years after becoming disheartened with coarse fishing and the way every venue seems to stock nothing but rubbish fish, sorry i mean carp these days.
Anyway living in London i dont get to go fishing too much and only wet a line once every two months or so, apart from a couple of weeks over the sumer where i get to go almost every day so getting the most from each trip is quite important. To be fair my catches haven't been too bad, my years as a freshwater match angler taught me the importance of well tied rigs and knots and having to be able to chuck a 2oz feeder 100 yards across the Thames to reach the bream and chub gave me a head start on the casting, but i just get the feeling at the end of each session that i haven't fished to the full potential of the day/night.
I mainly fish down on the south coast around the West Bay/Seatown/Lyme area's as my mother in law lives down that way (not many men that actually look forward to having to visit the mother in law ) and using a variety of mackeral, sandeel and rag as bait usually take a few dogfish and flatties on each trip plus a few mackeral on the feathers if theyre in, ive also had a few one offs like a 3lb pollack back in April and a few Gurnard in the summer. What i would like to catch is a few bass and rays but so far they have eluded me.
My maximum distance with a baited rig and 4oz lead is only around the 100/110 yard range, i occasionally hit further but cant do it consistently and i feel this is probably the best i can get from my current gear which is all cheap "holiday fisherman" type stuff sold as kits for £50 all in, despite having thousands of pounds worth of freshwater gear justifying spending hundreds on sea gear that i use a dozen times a year to the mrs is difficult.
Would being able to improve on my distance make a notable difference to my fishing? Are there any tips for catching more fish during a session and a more varied selection of species or should i just stop whinging and be happy that im getting bites at all

Thanks, CFC

[fester]

Hi mate,

Try fishing rock marks, the fish are literally at your feet so you don't need to cast far, the same goes for piers and breakwaters.

Estuaries are also good, flounders and plaice come quite close in often in 2' of water so do the bass.

I think that with your tackle you are probably achieving your maximum distance. Choose your venue right and this is more than enough!

If you do want to improve your gear then start with a decent second hand rod, you may get a £250 for around £70 - Bargain

As for reels, I like to buy from new as you know what sort of abuse it has had from word go.

Distance is a nice tool to have, especially for the match men, but not essential.

[garethp]

I feel a saga coming on...

Been shore angling for about 15 years, and started off with a £50 special set up. In North Wales this did me fine, there aren't too many venues where you need to hit over 100 yds with bait anyway. As I cut my teeth on Llandudno North Shore, where in autumn you can catch fish even when you can see your shockleader sticking out of the water, Llandudno Pier where you can drop your gear straight down and still catch and the Little Orme, a cliff mark where you can catch casting no more than 30yards out.

However, after a couple of years of reading magazines and watching people at other venues casting out huge distances I got brainwashed into wanting to upgrade to expensive 'showy' tackle. Being only 15-16 I was able to do this only by knowing the owners of a local tackle shop, now sadly closed, who allowed me to buy £300 of rod and reel and to pay it back on a weekly basis, ( at the time I was doing a paper round and working in a shop at weekends).

So, with new Metalite Beachcaster and ABU 6501 C3 (As I'm left handed) I set out to break casting records galore! over the next 10 years I gradually upgraded this tackle (ended up with a Penn PPT Viper, Penn PPT Groundcaster. Reel wise it was a SL20sh and 535 Mag for rough work and a 525 Mag to go with the abu (after learning to wind in right handed).

Now this was great, I looked the part on the beach, Mr multiplier man. In doing so I had also annoyed the bank manager.

All good you would say, but:

Yes, I was able to hit 120 yards on a good day with bait with my highly tuned reels and powerful rods, however casting less than 20 yards was almost impossible, wet weather and thumb slip caused birds nests, I had to cast shorter at night as I couldn't track where the lead was and windy weather was a nightmare. However I was still confident that I could hold my own on the beach. All well and good when punching 5oz of lead and bait out, except...

One of my other passions was spinning, I started off with a fresh water match rod and matching reel, which I had from the days I lived in Croydon, only moving up to Wales when I was 13. I used to love the fight you'd get off of a mackerel on a toby spinner. This rod was also used for targetting mini species down the sides of cliffs and piers. So 2 years ago I upgraded before it fell apart and got a plugging rod and a fixed spool to go with it. The reel came with 3 spools. one I loaded with 10lb mono, as used on my old set up. The other 2 spools I filled with super braid. The braid was fantastic, you could feel every vibration on the spinner or plug, every pluck from weed, every knock against rock and the 1st few fish felt like lunkers. I found I was now spending time fishing with this set up and neglecting my beachcasters.

Last September I got a new beachcaster and reel, a Penn FS Guvnor and Surfmaster 70 combo. This I loaded with 30lb braid. With this I can, if using a small bait get out to 150yds with a following wind, hit a big bait as hard as I can to around 100yds without worrying about birdsnests and also drop a bait 5 yds out without having to thumb the spool. Bad weather and darkness are also other factors I now no longer need to allow for. It also works as the following 2 examples show:

told you this was going to be a saga.

There is a mark within a couple of miles from where I live where big bass can be found, the ground however is very snaggy with a gulley about 100yds offshore at low tide. In previous years I had used my 25lb loaded SL20sh and 535 reels and cast a big bait. This always dropped short of the gulley no matter how much grunt I put into the cast. This year, by going back to a rod/reel combo that cost £150 I was able to get a large soft crab smack into this gulley, the result a 8lb 11oz Bass.

I fished another mark a few weeks ago, which involved casting big baits off of wet rocks as far as you can into a strong side/head wind, I used my 525 with 15lb mono and fixed spool and 30lb braid, casting a fillet of mackerel and 5oz lead. The multiplier would 'stall' after release, the resultant bait was dropping down at about the 50 yd mark. The fixed spool was landing at the 80-90 yd mark, subsequently I was catching more on this.

So in answer to your question,

a, if you fish venues where you need a bit of poke to get to the fish, and I believe on the South Coast this is the norm, and there are no other venues where the fish can be caught closer in then yes, the ability to hit a good cast will result in more fish.

b, There is no need to spend £1000s on tackle, as my £150 outfit now outfishes my £300 outfit by a very great margin. Just because magazines tell you that new super dooper rod #1 with F1 Grand prix reel #2 will add miles to your cast at high cost don't get caught up in the hype, a set up costing £100-150 will more than cover your needs.

The futures bright, the futures braid

Finally, even if you do end up being able to hit a bait 200yds like some kind of superhuman, always remember as Fester says, the fish can be right under your feet...

Saga over, carry on

[dreadfish]

cfc how about using if you have one a carp rod and reel i use one for bass/flounders/ and light bottom fishing it can cast up to 4 oz but i always use less lead to get the bait moving it seems to work and will handle bigger fish don't think you need expensive gear to catch just keep it simple learn where you are fishing a beach changes everyday and try spots that look alright to you like you would in freshwater fishing

[cfc]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Unfortunately fishing different marks is a problem at the moment, i'm currently not driving so i'm dependent on how far the mrs is prepared to go to drop off and collect me, and this is usually only 10-20 minutes drive either direction from her mothers house, the plus side is that any of the beach marks within that distance produce a fairly good amount of fish, for me as a relative beginner anyway.

Braid, now there's something i never thought of for sea angling. I've used braid for freshwater bream fishing for the last 10 years or so because of its superior bite detection and less drag from heavily flooded rivers but i never even considered it for fishing from the beach. The only problem i would be worried about is pulling for a break when snagged, braid doesn't break easily!!
I think i'll have a look into that when im down there at the end of July for a few days. Just one question though, is there a different knot needed to attach the shockleader to the braid or can i carry on using the albright knot (i think thats what he called it) i was shown when i first started?


I think i managed to answer my own question about will distance improve my catches. This weekend we had to make a impromptu run down to Dorset to help her mother out as her usual home help was ill so i managed to squeeze a couple of nights fishing in Friday and Saturday. Friday night i fished off Seatown and was very pleased to take two 2-3lb smoothhounds on whole squid fished on a pennel rig just 30 yards out as the tide went down as well as a few small whiting and pout on the other rod fished at distance. Unfortunately the catching didn't continue and i blanked on Saturday night fishing off Westbay beach, although i did lose 2 good fish against the ledge, again taken on whole squid fished at short range. So it seems that while distance produces more bites and a wider range of species the better sized fish are within a stones throw of the beach, at least at night when the tides up anyway.

[bass]

dreadfish is spot on,my sea fishing is done using two carp rods,2 1/4lb tc,10lb line 3 0z weights (max).As a freshwater angler if you have a carp rod this is suitable for light sea fishing.An Avon rod suitable for mullet.Even quivertipping over mudflats in estuaries with maddies for flounders is great.A lot of my mates use the porky pig feeder rods for all their estuary mulleting.I always like to fish as light as i can get away with taking into consideration conditions etc.So you may have some other freshwater rods you can use as well

[davidwilliams]

Fish as light as you can buddy!!
The fish just arent there in droves, so if you want max pleasure from those you do hook into go with the already suggested wet sack poles. Sorry carp rods!!
More than enough beef for beaches and estuaries, dont dismiss rock marks tho, they can be daunting but generally dont involve casting!

[cliffnorry]

just two tips, use braid rather than mono, you loose fish when the mono streches, the braid wont' or use circul hooke, you do not need to strike, and the fish are lip hooked, no diging for you hook, enjoy your increased catch.

[menaiman]

One point worth making regarding using coarse fishing tackle for sea fishing is that they will start corroding if not washed in freshwater after use. Sea fishing rods & reels are made for a saltwater environment but even these can suffer.
Westbay - one of the prettiest towns in Dorset. Never fished down there but it's only a matter of time since my kids now live just north of Bournemouth.