martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 8, 2006 22:16:18 GMT 1
they sell different size solar pannels in maplins, heres food for thought, mounting one on the kayak to trickle charge the fishfinder while fishing, it woldnt be a permanent thing of course, could it be done? the bloke at maplins seemed to think so!
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The Image ™
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Post by The Image ™ on Apr 8, 2006 22:25:34 GMT 1
The guy from Maplins was probably thinking more of making a sale than kayaking. The small solar panels take about 12 hours to attain enough power to light a bulb. I expect that in one or two hours fishing from a kayak the difference would be too minimal to notice, especially when operating a battery guzzling fishfinder. The wind generators that yachts have give more power but even these wouldn't be enough I expect. Anyone know the tech specs on solar panel output to fishfinder input? It would be useful if it does work!
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 8, 2006 22:26:53 GMT 1
there must be a boffin out there somewhere
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Post by johnlegg on Apr 9, 2006 0:45:44 GMT 1
there is no point , just get a good battery it will last you 2 or 3 days on a full charge
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Post by learner on Apr 9, 2006 13:21:26 GMT 1
Erm.... think I am the person to ask here (boffin?)
OK the basics are, if I am correct
1) Will it run my fish finder? 2) Is it cost effective? 3) Is it able to withstand the sea conditions?
OK what you will need to know first input of fish finder (the current it takes and the voltage) Output of solar panel (current and voltage) Length of time it will take to charge (Usually in mA per hour)
OK I will try and keep it simple
1) If your fish finder takes 6V then you NEED a panel that delivers the 6V. (check that it is the right voltage) If it uses say 300mA then you need to replace more than this (light levels affect the output of the panel so the stated output is usually the max). It can be used to help the top up charging (or trickle charge) when not using the fish finder. but you will prob be using it during sunlight hours. It can take anywhere between 6 and 40 hours to charge a 2Vcell.
2) Cost effective... in this case I would say no (see above). you would prob need the best panel and maybe need to fit them in series to get the required power (space on yak being an issue) so as John said get a better battery as you need this anyway.
3) most are weather protected but not all! you will need to make sure or get kits for them. There are (i am informed) some that are protected to sea conditions but cost more.
simple answer is you have to have a battery on you yak and if its a a good one (rated to give the current and voltage you need plus more ) then its all you need.
Mid range sealed types last about 5 years and they are used in allsorts of equipment (look for ones used in alarms).
Get one that has high mA per hour output and it will last longer giving power even in cold conditions (remember output in cold drops?)
Hope it helps PM if need more tech advice
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The Image ™
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Post by The Image ™ on Apr 9, 2006 13:28:39 GMT 1
A 12 volt motorcycle battery would be perfect Martin. Small and lightweight with the same punch as a car battery. I have a spare one if you need it.
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Post by donald on Apr 9, 2006 14:31:12 GMT 1
Firstly - unless you are leaving the Yak with the solar cell fitted out in the open 24 / 7 , a solar cell will be a total waste of time. Secondly - a normal small 'motor cycle' battery has the probability of the acid leaking out - getting soaked into the glassfibre by capillary action / osmosis etc. Not a good idea. There is also the potential for an explosive situation to arise ...... water + acid + gasses ... pooof ..... The sealed 'gel' cells are the only real practical solution. However, they have to be charged by a charger specifically designed for gel-cells..... or a slow death will result. if you want them to live use the right beast -- The gel cells are NOT designed to be 'drained' flat. If this occurs - death will surely follow ! They are designed to be 'float charged' - in our terms = topped up all the time or on overnight ++12 > 24hrs. However, for their size / wieght / safety they are very hard to beat. Maplin do 6volt + 4amp/hr gel-cells quite cheap - they can be 'joined' to get 12 volt=4amp/hr. (hint = good value ) So for a reasonable drain current as with boat gear - they should last for a lot longer than your trip. e.g. battery amp per hour divided by gear amp per hour = time available to flat. (1 amp = 1000ma) Your gear draws 150ma (per hour) - therefore - 4amp/hr divided by 150ma/hr = 27 hours So safely you have over 12 hours continuous use.
Usual PS ! I got a solar cell last summer. It's about 30cm square. Got the 'special' solar cell to battery control electronic device. I used it on a small electric fence, the unit draws about 70ma. The battery started out; fully charged, it's a about 45amp/hour. I put "the system" on-line at the end of August, and by the beginning of November the battery was flat and the solar panel was running the fence in"daylight" hours only .......
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Post by donald on Apr 9, 2006 18:13:38 GMT 1
Just been on Garmen site - as an example the Fishfinder 80 at 12 volts draws 0.28amps (280ma) Fishfinder 120 at 12 volts draws 0.5amps (500ma) - that eats up 1/2 an amp per hour - so a 4amp/hr battery last 8 hours - 4 hours to be safe'ish
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 9, 2006 21:54:50 GMT 1
thanks for the offer of the battery glyn, i went to maplins today and got myself a 12v 7.2ah battery, the same as what john legg has used in the pics he's taken, the battery cost me £20 it was the charger that nearly crippled me, £35!!, fitting this fishfinder is more expensive than i thought, worth it in the end though i didnt think the solar pannel thing would be workable, its a shame realy, it could have been interesting that. thanks for your reply learner, even though it baffled me a bit! martin
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Post by cliffnorry on Apr 10, 2006 19:30:30 GMT 1
Right cut out all tec stuf, I have a panel on the boat, my 12volt battre is all ways charged up summer and winter, I have two powerfull head lights on the boat which I am not afrade to use, because I know the panel will put the power back next day, draw backs' it might be a little big for a yac and it cost me £160.00 a couple of years ago, but they are improving and you never know over the next few years.
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 10, 2006 23:17:40 GMT 1
your right cliff, i think to do it properly it would cost a packet, and how robust would it be, would it all withstand a capsize, at least it opened up a discussion, and its looking like a "not worth it " verdict ;D
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Post by learner on Apr 11, 2006 16:23:58 GMT 1
Sorry it was a bit technical Martin. I am used to providing info for people who have a technical understanding and tried to keep it as simple as pos. Will need to revisit how I break it down. Sorry!
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Post by learner on Apr 11, 2006 16:29:20 GMT 1
Cliffnorry is right they are making great improvements with this area of power so it may be possible to have one the size needed with in a couple of years.
I will keep my eyes open for the advances and let you know.
There is a German company that is working on the area and they are taking over the Japs on it. They have the technology but its a bit of a high cost (great if you work for NASA) but will come down when they advance more in the field.
Take it Cliffs is fixed on the boat with a huge 12V battery (or lorry) and its left in-situ all year round?
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 11, 2006 17:02:27 GMT 1
hi learner dont apologise, its good to get some advice from someone that knows their stuff, ill have another read later and take my time over it see if it sinks in!! cheers martin
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Post by cliffnorry on Apr 11, 2006 22:48:45 GMT 1
Hi' Learner, I am a tradesman and the way you broke down the technical info,was easy to understand, and the people on hear who are clever enough to work out how to fit a solar pannel to their yacks, and rig up ancher rigs, must be able to understand your info, and power input to power out take, is the same as power from the shoulders to speed and distance of their yacks, PS, yes mine is a fixture, with a cutout (not mentioned so far
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 11, 2006 22:59:49 GMT 1
hi learner, ive had a better read of your thread nowand its plain as day, thank for taking the time to write that up cliiffnorry, sounds like you implying that im a bit dense?
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Post by cliffnorry on Apr 12, 2006 10:28:15 GMT 1
Hi' Martin, not in any way do I think that you are dense, I was just pointing out, that even though we understand Learner, and the technical jargan is fine, it dose not bring us to the basic fact that, at the moment it must be only a dream, you may have noticed I refered to a cut out, this you would need or one bright day your batterie would explode, it is not realy a DIY job, and having studided sola for some time befor fiting one, I would advise aginst it, the pannel would not be affected if the yack turned over , I would not recomend it for the cut out,or the wireing conections, and allthough mine will work even in the winter sun, the boat is allways outside were it gets the ultrevilet rays all day every day.
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Post by learner on Apr 19, 2006 9:59:24 GMT 1
Thanks for that guys was about to re-do ALL my teaching notes for the start of the year.
Its not an easy subject to understand and that is why most of it has been dropped by schools and colleges, Its only uni's on the whole who still teach it.
Still I will keep my eyes out for a good package that will work for you guys.
It looks simple to most people with a techno or trade background but then there are a lot of pitfalls so its not a straight forward as it seems. If it was I would prob be making a killing at it lol
Nice to get feedback tho cheers guys
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Post by donald on Apr 19, 2006 10:28:58 GMT 1
Hi learner - this is the panel I use up at the farm - with the Maplin solar charger device. On test - in very bright sunlight, it produces just under 500ma, It seems to average about 200ma in bright cloudy conditions, and about 100ma on a dull day. At about £25 a panel - fair value for about 5watts .. I noticed that to get up to a 'nearly' useful 40 + watts the cost rose - wheeeee £200 + hmmhhmm........... Oh - I'm surprised to hear they have "dropped" solar power - When I started teaching technology, it wasn't even on the curriculum ........... It was in StarTrek ! ! !
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Post by pyranhachris on Apr 21, 2006 12:59:34 GMT 1
Check this link out - don't know if these will give enough power??? www.solio.com
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The Image ™
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Post by The Image ™ on Apr 21, 2006 14:52:08 GMT 1
Personally, I think the whole things a dead duck. There's enough clutter already on a sea angling kayak without introducing solar panels. And all that glass could be an awful companion if you go over in the surf when things get ripped off and whizz around you at high speed in the water.
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