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Post by zebra on Apr 10, 2006 14:55:33 GMT 1
First aid kit I have been asked a couple of times this week about my first aid kit It’s a soft leather type pouch that folds out to 3 sections and has all the basic things in plasters /bandages hypothermic blanket ect .I put it on top of my crate under the bungee cords on the back so its easy to get at if I need it and its out of the way . go to www.nwsa.ukf.net/ click fishing then kayak angling its the left hand photo have a look All the items are individually packaged in sealed packets so stay dry even if your kit gets wet I have found it ideal for the job it cost £5.00 and is well worth the cost I have had mine on the boat about 18 months now and its not degraded in any way at all if anybody wants one if you let me know by Friday midnight and I will get it for you Saturday morning when I go to the wholesalers and bring it to the meet with me on Sunday as I said earlier it costs £5.00 inc vat and every boat should have one .
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Post by johnlegg on Apr 10, 2006 17:16:05 GMT 1
I got mine from brook bank, small but has just enough in it, and is water prof
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 10, 2006 18:45:33 GMT 1
terry, you refered to the hypothermic blanket there in your first aid kit, is it one of those tin foil type blankets? when i did my medics course in work they told us to steer clear of them because if you put one round a cold wet person it could induce hypothermia, imagine if you take a joint of meat out of the freezer, wrap it in foil and leave it to one side it will take ages to defrost, they act as an insulator, if its cold it keeps it cold and if its warm it keeps it warm. the only thing they are good for is keeping the wind off. that said i still keep a couple in my first aid kit
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Post by cliffnorry on Apr 10, 2006 19:09:06 GMT 1
I don't want to start a war hear, but it has been proven that if you keep a casulaty cold it gives them a better chanch, any takers?
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martinw
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Post by martinw on Apr 10, 2006 19:18:10 GMT 1
if a casualty is cold, then wrapping something round them thats going to keep them cold could kill them. the aim is to gradually warm the casuslty using indirect heat, i.e dont put them too close to a fire or sit them next to a radiator, if they are wet, remove wet clothing, replace with dry kit, and if poss, put into a sleeping bag to gradually raise the core temp back to normal, never get into the sleeping bag with them, you could run the risc of going hypothermic yourself, the cold casualty will draw your body heat off you twice as quick. warm drinks are good too.
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stitch
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Post by stitch on Apr 12, 2006 19:05:16 GMT 1
Hi fellas how can you keep a kayaker cold when he has to paddle home, physical exertion = heat = increased heart rate and if the injury is deep the blood will flow. I think a basic first aid kit is a must even like me you only carry a few plasters, bandage and a tube agrip. To some people a cut can lead to panic thats not a good thing whan you are the master to cabin boy of your boat.
john ;D ;D ;D
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Post by zebra on Apr 12, 2006 22:42:37 GMT 1
a good point john makes another thing is when you are taking out a new yaker for a paddle the most important thing is give him as much confidence as possible .its a nervous thing taking to the water for the first time in a yak i find the great big red cross on my kit realy helps his first impression is i can relax this guy knows what is needed and will look after me .
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stitch
Experienced Full Member
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Post by stitch on Apr 12, 2006 23:05:53 GMT 1
Hi Terry Couldn't have put it better myself (red cross)Just knowing you can look after yourself in the event of an accident is a comforting feeling. My experience of shore and kayak fishing is the majority of cuts and nicks i find are to my hands, now couple that with the fact the same hands i fish with will have to get me home, its good to know i wont be distracted by a cut continually opening and closing by the forces put upon them paddling to shore.
John ;D ;D ;D
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alanc
Experienced Full Member
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Post by alanc on Apr 13, 2006 8:02:32 GMT 1
surely if anyone is that badly injured you would call the coast gaurd is,nt this what makes the whole point of having a vhf . by all means try to make your own way back but you could put yourself and your fellow kayakers in more danger vhf is next on my list and should have been one of the first after good clothing .you will get hyperthermia ,no doubt ,in a bad situation even a vhf wont save your life if your dead before the coastgaurd gets to you we need to keep hamering home the importance of that . all good advice though lads take care sunday wish i could be there
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martinw
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on trawler watch!!!
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Post by martinw on Apr 13, 2006 10:46:21 GMT 1
some good input there from everyone, obviously what ive been talking about is worst case senario, everyone should carry some sort of first aid kit, with different sorts of plasters and bandages, as for the foil "space blankets", i just wanted to pass on some of my knowledge that i gained on a medic course in work. other things at least one person in the group should know is CPR, ie, giving breaths to your casualty and massaging a stopped heart, all that probably sounds a bit over the top, but our biggest risk is kayaking is drowning, and CPR is really simple to do, also knowing how to put a casualty in the recovery position.
If any one would like to know how to do these things dont hesitate to ask.
please dont pay lip service to all the safety and first aid issues bought up on this forum, have the right kit and attitude and it will all be plain paddling ;D ;D ;D
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Post by zebra on Apr 13, 2006 11:50:14 GMT 1
well said martin
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Post by hursty on Apr 16, 2006 13:04:10 GMT 1
Thought this might be of interest( used by divers) , all in all however the best bit of safety kit lies between your ears! Particularly interesting is the bit on after drop! Why is hypothermia dangerous?
Hypothermia may be mild, moderate, or severe. The presentation may range from shivering and piloerection ("goosebumps"), to profound confusion, irreversible coma and death. Significant hypothermia begins at temperatures of 95 degrees F (35 degrees C) core temperature and below. The lowering of the body temperature occurs as the body is robbed of heat by the surroundings. Water conducts body heat away up to 26 times faster than air of the same temperature. Normal body functions slow down with decreasing heart rate, decreasing respiratory and metabolic rate. Thinking is impaired and speech becomes confused. Reflexes are slowed and muscles become stiff and unusable. Then dangerous life-threatening heart rhythms develop which are hard to reverse.
WHAT'S A KEY CONCEPT IN HEAT TRANSFER?
The complex science of heat transfer can be simply summed up: heat energy flows naturally in only one direction, from areas of higher temperature to lower temperature. When the difference is large, more heat flows than when it is small. Temperature differences called gradients exist all over your body. Two are important to understanding heat loss in the cold. One is between your insides and your skin, called your core-to-skin gradient. The other is between your skin and the outside environment, called the skin-to-environment gradient. Here is where thermoregulation gets really interesting.
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SKIN TEMPERATURE AND CORE TEMPERATURE
Your skin temperature is not 98.6 degrees F (37 degrees C). That familiar number is the average temperature of your insides called your core. Core temperature drops a degree or two in early morning and rises three to six degrees during exercise. Healthy core temperature maintains a narrow range. Skin is cooler and marvelously changeable. In the cold, skin temperature quickly drops to that of the surrounding air or water, which is a good thing.
A skin temperature close to the surrounding temperature decreases the gradient and with it, heat loss. Two concepts follow: the surrounding temperature need not be 98.6 degrees F to be thermoneutral, and cooler skin, common to women, is an advantage in the cold to lose less core heat. Men with higher skin temperature lose more heat in the cold.
How can hypothermia victims be recognized?
SYMPTOMS AND SIGNS 1. SHIVERING 2. LOWERED BODY TEMPERATURE 3. COLD BLUE SKIN 4. SLOW HEARTBEAT 5. SLOW RESPIRATION 6. SLURRED SPEECH 7. CONFUSION 8. MUSCLE STIFFNESS 9. CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST
What can be done to assist the hypothermic victim? TREATMENT The basic goals of early care are to prevent cardiopulmonary arrest, stabilize the core temperature, then carefully transport the victim to definitive medical care.
1. Removethe patient from the cold environment.
2. Check the ABC's of airway adequacy, breathing and circulation. If acceptable, then we add a "D" as in ABCD: DEGREES - what is the body temperature? A low reading thermometer is commercially available (most clinical thermometers read to 94 degrees F only) and this should be part of an emergency kit. As always, if the patient is not breathing and the heart not beating, standard cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) should be started immediately.
3. Prevent further heat loss. This is done by removing wet clothing, gentle drying of the skin, remove or cut off suits, covering the high heat loss areas of the body, e.g., the head and neck (accounts for 50% of the heat loss), the lateral thorax and groin areas.
4. Gentle handling is a must. As the body rewarms it gets colder first for a short time; this is known as afterdrop.
Why is 'afterdrop' so dangerous? During this period the heart is very vulnerable to developing life threatening rhythm disturbances. Immediately after rescue the victim should be removed horizontally from the water and kept that way. A litter or stretcher should be used to carry the victim since unnecessary exercising, jumping, climbing or exertion may trigger the heart rhythm disturbance. Victims may deny they are ill and want to decline medical care, or want to climb into ambulances or helicopters on their own. Remember their judgement may be clouded, and yours should prevail. Afterdrop can be worsened by certain types of "field treatments", such as a cigarette, a hot cup of coffee and a drink of alcohol, all time-honored treatments. These all prolong the afterdrop and may not help the hypothermic victim recover. They should not be given to hypothermic individuals with core temperatures below 95 degrees F.
Thermal Protection and Hypothermia Considerations
The study of immersion hypothermia has increased survivability in downed pilots and aircrew, shipwreck victims, sport scuba enthusiasts, and near-drowned victims.
Where does the body lose heat ? „h Head, neck, axilla, and inguinal region, for the most part „h 50 % lost from the head and neck alone heat flux across the skull, blood vessels close to surface „h Remember children lose heat quicker because of ratio of body mass to skin surface
How does the body lose heat ? „h Conduction-the transfer of heat by direct contact with water, air or ground „h Convection-the transfer of heat by air or water that moves away „h Radiation-the transfer of energy by non-particulate means, heat loss from an unprotected head „h Evaporation conversion of water droplets (sweat) Into water vapor, thereby absorbing calories of heat
How do we protect these heat-loss areas? „h Create a micro-climate around body with insulators „h Waders, gloves, hats, boots, shoes „h Wet suits made of closed cell neoprene „h Dry Suits and under garments „h Clothing In layers, virtues are loose fitting, air trapping, no ligatures, belts, zippers „h Head coverings
What are some of the factors affecting how fast we lose heat? „h Water Temperature „h Outside Air Temperature (OAT) „h Wind, wind-chill „h Wave action, sea state „h Wet clothes versus dry (5 times greater loss) „h Body habitus „h Sexual differences „h Age „h Air versus water (water 25 times greater loss) „h Activity level, breathing rate „h Fear, panic „h Tachycardia „h Fight or flight
What are some medications and conditions that increase heat loss? „h Beta blockers „h Phenothiazines „h Benzodiazepines „h Barbiturates „h Effect of alcohol „h Cigarettes
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stitch
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Post by stitch on Apr 20, 2006 20:58:43 GMT 1
Going off the subject a bit. last year Dave and i paddled out from Colwyn Bay Pier to the Little Orm, this is were the story begins. Dave was about a quarter of a mile out from my position which was in the shadow of the Little Orm. I fished for what seemed like twenty or so minutes occasionally looking round to see my yak buddy. The last look for Dave turned up no Dave. What had happened was Dave was unable to find me because i was in the shadow of the Orm, the sun shining off the top blinded him and he thought i had paddled back to Colwyn Bay Pier, and so he followed. I spent the next two and a half hours paddling back and forth from Llandudno beach to our starting point checking every nook and cranny of rock and beach even at one point climbing a few feet up a piece of the Orm to get a better view. By this time i was at my whits end but as i approached the pier Dave was there, he thought i had been hit by a jet ski!! although i have never had any problems with thoughs lads, i thought Dave had broken a paddle thus drifting out to sea.
The only communication we had were via mobile phones ,but neither of us had a signal Dave had a VHF i did not. Now i know you can pick holes in my last sentence but the point i am trying to make is ! at what point do you actually think is the right time to call for help. My incident above had lapsed into a span of over two and a half hours by the time i pulled my kayak out of the water and by which time it was dusk.
How would you have dealt with this situation, just in case! there is a future instance similiar to this one, I would like to be better prepared! Your views on this would be appreciated.
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The Image ™
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Post by The Image ™ on Apr 21, 2006 4:37:08 GMT 1
I had a scare on the Llandudno meet when Melissa was shaking from cold so much that I could feel it through the kayak. I always give her that woollen hat with the ear muffs on it now. 70% of body heat is lost through the head.
Ref the tin foil, the number one enemy in a kayak is the wind chill factor so I 'would' use the tin foil. Having said that, in a kayak at sea it would blow all over the place. I now ALWAYS carry a big sweater (like Terry sometimes has) as a spare layer for me if I get cold or for Melissa or anyone else. Wool is still warm when wet (if not warmer).
I witnessed a few real life hypothermia cases in the RN and they were treated by being placed immediatly fully clothed into a warm bath. Oh and by the way (this is important) do not confuse hypothermia with hyperthermia (as wrongly quoted earlier) as hyperthermia means to be too hot!
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