SAFETY Early morning meet 6th May

[ntombi]

Please dont think I'm being boring, but safety must be your no 1 priority. In diving we use a buddy system where your buddy is not out of touch reach, being in kayaks makes this a bit more difficult especially when fishing.I think everybody has to have a buddy that stays with one another. so if for any unforeseen circumstances happen that you upside and lose your radio and gear, you at least have a buddy on hand. Just a thought, we went out on a night dive to some 22 meters and after 10Min's where my buddy had been beside me, he was no longer there.any idea what this feels like and what goes through your mind, choose your buddy wisely. Sea conditions can change at an instant.

ENJOY kayaking, but put SAFETY first..

Regards
Stuart

[The Image ™]

Tell me about it Last Sunday at Cable Bay as we paddled out, Kev and Tim passed a floating football and decided to double back and give it to some kids on the beach. Meanwhile, I didn't know (as it was behind me) and kept on paddling. I was way out to sea by the time I realised I was all on my Billy. Nice gesture of Kevs with the football but I think sticking with your kayakers is more important. This would be especially so at night. What do you think of the following guidelines;

1/ Ensure that all those carrying a VHF are operating on the same channel.

2/ Have a break every 20 minutes and a head count.

3/ Lightsticks on all kayaks.

4/ Ensure that the group has an experienced kayaker at the back as well as at the front and that both have VHF. Any stragglers can be reported to the man at the front.

[johnlegg]

That all sounds like good advice. When we have numbers closer to the meet we'll arrange buddies, radio frequency ect.... I went to Brookbank today and purchased this flash pack



and the following to attach to my fishing box


cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631962291&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

I'll look like a Christmas tree.


John

[zebra]

sounds like you are all going to have a great night .
work wont let me go .
but remember .
(here comes the safety bit )
Night fishing in a kayak can be a very dangerous thing
It needs to be planed properly .
Each boat should display a fixed white light .
Light sticks should be attached to every pfd
Each boat should carry flares .
Each boat should carry first aid kit .
Each boat should carry a compass and be taking readings.
At least .
A paddle plan should be drawn up and each kayaker given a copy in advance of sailing .
Also the coastguard should be informed of the plan before sailing.
The group should have a lead paddler and a scoop or rear paddler
Both in constant touch with each other .
A safety plan should also be made up in case of emergency. e.g.(man over board)
Paddlers should be within talking distance when fishing not shouting distance .
Buddy systems should contain 3 paddlers if one gets in trouble that leaves 2 one for the rescue and one to inform the others in the whole group and coastguard that they are having a problem .
Night fishing can be great but needs a lot more planning than a daylight trip .
Remember safety first when in doubt duck out

[georgieb]

Ten out of Ten for that Zebra.
Everything he said was crucial - this forum should have a set of site guidlines that should form the minimum requirements for kit and clothing before ANYONE goes out and then there should be another set of guidlines for those thinking of going out at night -Its time we all contributed to this before this season gets well under way to make sure newbie kayak anlgers get the right guidance. Zebra has made a good start at that tonight.

[zebra]

john can we have more info on the flash pack it looks great
ie .is it a strobe ?
what powers it ?
where do you attach it ?
is it water proof?
how is it activated?
and how much are they ?

thanks

[speciman]

Be wary of using the flash pack it if its just a strobe unless you bought it for use in an emergency situation and not as a general navigation light. If you use a strobe at sea people may assume you are in trouble. If it does both (flash and 'on') I'd be interesting in seeing and perhaps buying one myself.

[johnlegg]

It has 5 modes, 2 of them are distress
1 sos
2 flasing
3 just on high beam
4 just on low beam
5 and a tourch


shop.store.yahoo.com/waterproofcases/flashpac.html

It cost me £34.99

[speciman]

Looks smart. I didn't realise it was so small.

[starvinmarvin]

Excellent initiative Zebra,

On our recent trip out on the Hamble at night I took a few photographs, it was impressive how well the reflective strips on our cags and PFD's actually stood out, it's worth considering adding a strip or two of 3m reflective tape to the hatch or deck of the kayak, may even be worth adding a strip to the hull... as a precaution, worth testing to see how well it sticks.

SM

[zebra]

I ordered 10 mtrs of the 3m reflective tape from ebay last night David will let you know how sticky it is .I am going to stick it everywhere inc down the hull but specially on the deck areas if a helicopter is searching for you most kayaks will be invisible no metal so no radar will detect you it is important to add any that can give any help at all to those who are searching for you .one tip is to open out your hypothermic safety blanket in your first aid kit and spread it best you can over your boat because it contains aluminium it will reflect radar and may be a life saver .
sorry to be a safety bore ??

[starvinmarvin]

Not boring, sensible, the more that are aware and act on the dangers the better for all of us, it's our jobs to try and keep the new paddlers safe by sharing our knowledge and experiences.

SM

[speciman]

I stuck some SOLAS reflective tape on my RAM tubes yesterday. They look like garden lights when a light is shone on them.. very effective. I put a couple of strips on my paddle blades too.

[martinw]

after having a good think about this and reading these threads im going to opt out of the night fish. my kayak isnt rigged for it, ive not had the chance to put any lighting or reflective tape or material on it.

Also ive not paddled this venue in daylight so im weary of paddling it at night, i think that before i attempt this im going to do some night paddling on a venue that i know well and done a lot of day paddling there. At a guess id say that night paddling is totaly different to during the day i.e your sense of direction and distance can go to pot, ive done a lot of night navigation over land with map and compass and that can be hard enough! I want to see what its like to paddle in flat calm sea and in a swell.

your kayak needs to be a lot more organised at night than it is during the day, you cant be fumbling about in the dark trying to find an esential piece of kit, mine wont be in time for the meet.

I think what zebra has said is spot on and i dont mind coming on and putting my hands up to the fact im not ready or kitted out properly to fish at night, im not going to run before i can walk, ie i need to get some night paddling time before i even think about wetting a line.

Im very confident in my daytime paddling and could react to most situations on the water, however im not confident in my night paddling so therefore i wouldnt want to give anyone im paddling with at night a false sense of security, them thinking im confident when im not.

Must admit the whole thing sounds very cheeky but i will give it a miss and do like terry is and fish daylight. Im not trying to put anyone else off either, make your own minds up! Hope you all respect my decision, and i dont mind you calling me a pansy ;D ;D Ive got plenty of time to get myself up to the task, but will see you all on the day

Martin

[speciman]

Martin like Zebra I also think you're spot on.

In my opinion with night fishing you need to be even more safety conscious. If you don't have the right gear and experience of the waters you are planning to fish it's not worth heading out. What concerns me are those who have recently bought yaks and are heading out at night which no experience of the waters they are fishing (even if they are with more experienced paddlers).

[martinw]

one step at a time eh!!

[georgieb]

you're all right .
one step at a time like martin says - so how about a pansy competition - i'll start it by not even going in the first place never mind backing out of a night fish (only joking), i am very grateful to the organisers but i am no where near ready for it,. However, i have this morning booked into the campsite at Dinas for Friday / sat night hoping to join in on any daytime activities that get planned. On another note note , just taken delivery of some serious nets and bait traps (no i'm note a budding netter) just interested to discover what lies beneath and what use it could be. Looking forward to trying them out on the Dinas weekend and expecting to put most of it back best of luck - george

[The Image ™]

I'm a little bewildered by some of the posts under this thread as I believe it to be a matter of safety to GO on this meet and unsafe to NOT go! It's an oppertunity to learn how to cope at night but with lots of other paddlers. Also, it's been wisely timed by John so that it'll be getting light only 2 or 3 hours after the start. To not practice this sort of thing could leave you in a pickle in the future when a harder than expected paddle back could leave you out in the dark all alone. That's why I want my daughter involved in this one as it's a saftey education.
To not go on it would be like not believing in capsize practice and choosing to find out about it when it happens for real.

As regards light at sea, I used to wonder about this with my boat but discovered it's lighter out there than you think as water reflects light so it's never truly dark like you get over land. It seems to stay like twilight all night.

Me and Melissa will be going so that we gain knowledge and confidence with it rather than waiting until it happens for real.

[martinw]

im sticking by my decision to get some night paddling done on a venue i know well with other paddlers like penmaenmawr beach or even north shore before i venture out at night on an unknown venue for a fish.

im happy with my capsize drills, i know quite well i could do it with my eyes shut, heaven knows ive practiced it enough ;D

[speciman]

Hi Image. I understand what you're saying. Its important to gain experience so you become better prepared.

However, my humble opinion is that if you partake in an organised meet such as this, the organiser/designated leader/person-who-made-the-invitation should check that each member of the group has the right kit and prior daytime experience. That means wearing the right clothing (so if you take a dunking you can get back on your yak and continue fishing) - it goes without saying that you should be proficient with daytime rentrys which should be second nature.

I feel that in an organised nighttime session each member should have a form of communication so a head count can be kept by the organiser and fellow paddlers can be kept informed of any difficulties which may arise.

You and Melissa may meet these criteria and are ready for the next step but do you know for sure that the people you are heading out with (and whom you may have to rely on in an emergency situation) meet these criteria too?

Restricting the numbers in the group could also be safer.

I'm not anti nightfishing far from it but I would want to know the experience levels and the type of kit the rest of the group had before I headed out with them.

Theres an interesting article at Kayak Fishing Stuff on night fishing.

www.kayakfishingstuff.com/articles_view.asp?Kayak_Articles=30

One part of the second paragraph reads "

Please become comfortable with your kayak with a lot of daytime kayak fishing first before taking on the dark especially if those forays are going to be in the salt. You may wish to go freshwater fishing for your initial forays as the smaller water and lack of tides and currents will give you less to deal with and adjust to. Nighttime is not the time to learn the sport. Once you've become comfortable with your kayak and gear adding some night excursions may be just what you need to spice up your kayak fishing. "

[chrish]

ive paddled quite a few night sessions already and theyre no big deal and i agree with images comment about safety and that people should take the opertunity to try it in a group. i dont think anybody should feel afraid of it and if they are theyre being rather silly. the fishing though isnt that great and ive been disapointed in that side of it. it wasnt as good as daylight fishing. the reason that beachcasters catch more at night is because the fish slip into the shallows under the cover of darkness but that science doesnt happen further out in fact i think the fish further out do as we do at night which is sleep. ive done 11 night trips now but the daytime trips were more productive.

[speciman]

Hi Chris

I don't think that people who are afraid of night fishing are being silly - as I see it if they are afraid then they are out of they're comfort zone with the idea of it and are not ready. When they gain confidence through daytime fishing and having the right kit then they may be more forthcoming to the idea.

I know of a case not long ago where a kayak fisherman who had his kayak for I think less than two weeks went night fishing and openly admitted to being out of his comfort zone (fair play to him for being open and honest). He was right to be afraid and was not being silly - he had limited paddling experience, didn't have the right clothing and got cold.

[chrish]

having done it 11 times last year i think its safer than daylight which is why i use the term silly. no idiots in boats. twice as much range on the radio. brighter flares. no swimmers. i feel safer at night. the 1st time i did it i had a stigma about it and i can see a few on here have that which is not good. why not have a 1 hr paddle to rid the nerves and hone the confidence. why does it have to be so long and far? a 1 hr paddle at night close to shore is really no big deal and very beneficial.
how many times have you done it speciman and where? have you had a bad experience or something?

[speciman]

Sure I agree Chris why not have a 1hour paddle to hone confidence.. providing each person in the group has the right kit and prior daytime experience. If the few on here you mention have the right kit and daytime experience why not?. As I said I'm not anti night fishing I've done it a few times myself and like you I've found that I prefer fishing during the daytime.

[ntombi]

Just to let you all know that I am opting out of the night fish, not that I'm afraid ,far from it.I for one do not have the right gear for going out at night and would not want to put any body else in danger. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this after reading all the replies and have realized that I'm just not experienced enough. Sorry , call me a wimp if you want. I will be at Dinas for the weekend, already booked in and paid, and like George I will up for any day trips

For all of those of you who do go, I wish you all a great time and catch plenty.

Regards
Stuart

[chrish]

for the record i didnt mean silly in a nasty way. i have a neighbour who wont drive his car at night because he developed a fear of it which i think silly and i attach the same to night paddling. one thing i would advice though is to contact the coastguard with expected return e.t.a. so they can press the big red button if needed. im more prone than most to trouble as i only have a standard kayak unlike some of the beautys on here but i wouldnt instill a fear of night yakking into anyone as its fun and teaches you a lot. a daytime fog can come down in seconds on anyone and if youve been out at night you will be twice as likly to be okay but in a state of panic if you havnt which is why i would strongly urge anyone to try it. night time is nowhere near as bad as fog as lights and flares work well and visibility of shore very good but in a fog not at all with no sight of shore and falres and lights useless.

[The Image ™]

None of the posts are silly chrish I and Melissa got over our initial fear as we've done a night kayak with Kev and it wasn't bad at all although admittedly we did return before it was totally 100% dark and it did feel eerie at first but alright after a while. In regards to the kayak meet I feel so confident I'd even take my daughter with me but it would have to be calm and I don't just mean in relation to my daughter but even for me on my own. Calm is ok though. I've done night swimming, night diving and night boat fishing so why not night kayaking. Any substantial wind waves or swell though and I'd stay out of the water altogether as I'd want a good buffer zone so I've got an easy paddle to shore if I notice the sea state increase even by a bit.

[johnlegg]

I know were you are all coming from, all points taken. I've picked this time because yes we will be paddling in the dark, but by the time we hit the mark the sun will start to rise and it is a fantastic spot for fishing and the scenery is great.
We will be about a 100 yards from the shore. The worst part of the paddle out is going around the point as there is a rip just out side the seal rocks. We will be staying to the inside of the rocks as we go around.

[The Image ™]

Those rocks look a bit dicey for a night kayak though John. How about setting out a tadge later so we get to them at dawn and reach the destination mark a bit after dawn which is a great time for bassing.

[johnlegg]

By the time we get our kayaks in the water it will be 3.30. It is
0.9 miles to the point, and, as the sun starts to rise at 4, I'm sure the sun will be on its way by then.
Chris is right about the fog. It rolls over you so quickly. I have been caught by it several times when out in the boat and was thankful I'd done a "Day Skipper" course so could deal with the situation comfortably. In the dark you can see the lights along the coastline, in the fog you can hardly see the sea.
Anyone not comfortable with this but fancy's going out in the day I'll see back at Dinas (Jackie'll be at the house with the kettle on) at apx 12pm and off we go again...

ps the weather will stop us if it is bad